We are busy interviewing people working behind the scenes at the Edinburgh Festival. Today producer Gina Donnelly, who has been working at the Fringe since 2018, and who this year is producing Oisín Kearney’s ‘Good With Faces’.

We spoke to Gina about what being a producer at the Fringe involves, what advice she has for early-career performers and producers, and what one thing she’d change about the Edinburgh Festival if we were able to make that happen.

CC: What is your role at the Edinburgh Festival?
GD: I am the producer of a fantastic new play ‘Good With Faces’ by Oisín Kearney. It’s a pressure cooker interrogation between a social worker and a mother, laced with black comedy and unexpected twists. It’s a prime example of the phenomenally high standard of Irish writing.

CC: What does being a producer involve in the run up to the Festival?
GD: Producing involves a lot of non-glamorous admin, which isn’t the sexy stuff everyone sees, but it’s the behind the scenes work that’s essential for any show.

It starts with getting funding. Lots and lots of funding applications, meetings and pitches to get supporters on to the show. It’s my job to make everyone else see the quality and potential of the show, and to convince them that it’s a show worth backing.

Once funding is secured, I’m in charge of a lot of the organising and getting a great team of people on board. I’ll work with the lead artist – Oisín Kearney in this case – to put together the best possible team of actors and creatives, and then contract them in to the show, working with agents and managers to make sure everyone is happy.

And once the team is together and we’re into rehearsals I’m the main point of contact for any big questions or queries that might come up.

And as we get closer to the Festival I start working with PR companies – this year the amazing Storytelling team – to make sure the show gets the audiences it deserves.

The other part of my job is very much informed by what the lead artist needs. Some artists want a producer focused solely on the admin and organisation, and some want a creative producer who can assist with script development and watch runs, essentially someone to be a creative sound board for them.

CC: What does it involve once the Festival is up and running?
GD: Regular check-ins with the PR team to make sure we’re getting the show in front of all the right people, keeping an eye on budget and ensuring there’s wiggle room for any emergency spend.

But Fringe is very much a team effort, if you want the show to work it has to be all hands on deck and you can’t be precious about your job title.

It also involves being around for any last minute bits the team need help with, connecting with other shows to do some cross show promotion, and lots and lots of flyering.

I also see it as my job to keep everyone calm and make sure everyone feels supported and isn’t left unsure of anything – I should be solving problems before anyone even knows there’s a problem and should be around to support the team in any of the various ways they need.

Even if that just means getting coffees or seeking out fun shows that they’d like, to help them decompress and make the most of Fringe.

CC: How do you decide which shows or performers to work with?
GD: I will never ever produce a show that I don’t truly love.

I’m based in Northern Ireland, where we have a massive lack of independent producers. This means that artists nearly always have to go through venue and funding structures that can place creative limitations and censorship on their work.

I became a producer because I really believed that a lot of writers weren’t having their work made in the way they wanted and shows with massive creative potential were being stunted by this system.

I pretty much always produce new writing, so it will normally start with an artist approaching me with a brief intro to their show, and then sending me a script. If I believe in the script and I have the time to give them my all, then I’ll really consider it.

Normally at the very beginning I’ll speak to the artist about why they want to make the show and if their answer lines up with my artistic ethos that goes a long way.

For example, with ‘Good With Faces’, I asked Oisín why he wanted to make this play and he said “I just want to tell a really good story”, and I think the power of really good writing is something that we often forget about or devalue.

But it’s the backbone of Fringe, it’s why I became an artist, and it’s one of Ireland’s most precious assets. Everyone’s always saying we’re a nation of storytellers but we need people to support the storytellers.

I’ll also always ask an artist why they want to work with me specifically, every producer is different and I need to understand why they think I’m the right person for their show.

And then the most important deciding factor is whether or not the person is sound – I’m not producing a show for someone who treats everyone else badly, no matter how good the story is.

CC: What are key factors in having a successful show at the Edinburgh Fringe?
GD: Number one, you have to believe your show is amazing.

Don’t wait for reviews or audiences to tell you it is, you have to already believe going in that this show is worth people’s time – not everyone will agree with you, that’s the whole purpose of art, but you need to be steadfast in that belief, otherwise you’ll get disheartened too easily and give up on your work.

Number two, be prepared to work for it. You can’t sit in the house, only go in for the hour of your show and come back again, and then wonder why it isn’t a hit. You need to be out there flyering, talking to people and seeing other work.

Don’t get so caught up in your own show that you forget you have the rare privilege to be at the biggest arts festival in the world; see lots of shows, talk to lots of artists and put the work in early to connect with people who need to see your show.

Number three, have a great team around you. You need to gather a team who you trust and value wholeheartedly.

No matter what your role is, you need to know that everyone else is doing their role without you having to be over their shoulder constantly, and in turn you need to treat that team well and acknowledge that the success of the show is the success of the whole team, not just one person.

Number Four, be good to your tech and venue staff! Fringe is very high pressure and the tech times are short – running out of time is a reality if you haven’t prepared in advance and had the conversations.

And if you go into the venue and disrespect the team who are there to help you – they are well within their rights not to help you – so you will be under more pressure, and also people talk; if you treat your in-house team well you’ll have a great time, you’ll get lots of support and you’ll make new friends – a much nicer version of events for all!

Number five, everyday you will learn more about who your audience are and why. Pay attention to this, take notes on this and learn how to target them for the show. Not every show is for every person, don’t take this personally, working out who your audience is, and is not, is a massive strength.

CC: What can performers do to capitalise on their Fringe experience?
GD: See as much as you can, and spend as much time with other artists as you can. Fringe is one of the most inspiring places in the world, you can see ten shows a day, each one totally different from the last, and you will learn something every time you take in a new bit of art.

It will make you a better artist, and it will give you a sense of community- I have people in my life that I found through Fringe who have now been friends for years, we talk to each other, we learn from each other and we support each other.

Going into very serious actor mode and only focusing on your own show won’t help you the way throwing yourself into the Festival will.

CC: What is your advice for early-career performers wanting to work with people like you?
GD: If you want to work with a producer make sure you have a good answer as to why. Don’t just email someone out of the blue having never seen any of their work, make an effort to find out what they have on and go to it, and think about how it compares to the style of work you’re making.

If they don’t have anything on at that time, email them and say “I’d love to meet you for a coffee so I can learn more about your work”. And then meet for that coffee with the intention of learning about them and their work, don’t go straight into a pitch for your show because you don’t know yet if you’re right for each other.

Treat it like dating, and the agreement to produce is the marriage proposal – there’s a lot of steps before you pop the question. I would also say to keep an eye out for open calls from companies, this is becoming a lot more commonplace and I’m a big believer in anything that cuts down on the elitist barriers to theatre.

I work both independently and as the co-artistic director for SkelpieLimmer Productions. SkelpieLimmer does an open casting call for every show, you don’t need experience, you don’t need training and if you don’t get a part the first time we’ll keep you on file and we’ll contact you if something you’re right for comes up.

Also invite me to shows, I love coming to see new stuff and artists I don’t know yet, and I don’t expect a free ticket- if you want me to see your show but you can’t give out comps just tell me why you’d like me to see it and ask me to buy a ticket. It’s literally my job to see shows so you’re not being brazen by asking me to do that.

CC: What is your advice for early-career arts professionals interested in pursuing a career like yours?
GD: I mean, same as my advice has been for a lot of this, go and see lots of shows and make sure you know what you like and what you care about.

There’s a lot of producers so it’s important that you have a recognisable style or niche, for example I love Fringe theatre and new writing, and I’m very good at getting shows to that level, getting people in and getting international opportunities out of it.

A lot of the time I get approached by artists who specifically want a producer who focuses on long life span and touring opportunities, but I wouldn’t be the right person for someone who wants to make a commercial stadium show – but I could recommend people who would be.

Which brings me to my second point, connect with other producers, learn from them and learn what they do. And also, it can be a very full on job, and this industry has a lot of unhealthy practices, so decide your working hours and boundaries early on and make them clear to everyone you work with.

If working twelve hour days constantly will make you worse at your job – and it will – then be very firm that you work certain hours and you do that to give everyone the best version of you, but that you also have a life outside that matters too.

As long as you give them what you promised and do your best for them, you will get a good reputation and people will respect your boundaries, and if they don’t, tell them to work with someone else.

CC: How has the Edinburgh Fringe changed since your first time working at the Festival
GD: It’s definitely gotten more expensive, which is an issue – something needs to be done to make doing a month at the Festival more realistic for more people. This also means the audiences are getting more and more privileged and the work risks becoming an echo chamber. We need to resist that.

I’d say there’s also a lot more Northern Irish work than there used to be. My first year here was 2018, with ‘My Left Nut’ by Michael Patrick and Oisín Kearney as their stage manager – side note: most arts careers aren’t lateral, do as many roles as you’re good at – and we were one of the only Northern Irish shows I remember seeing.

But I think the success of a show like that, Kabosh’s ‘Green And Blue’ and SkelpieLimmer’s ‘Two Fingers Up’ has made more artists see it as something that’s possible for us.

Northern Ireland is crippled by poor arts funding, so there’s often a bit of an ambition cap, but I feel like I’ve seen a change in attitude from artists in NI in the last few years and more and more are believing that their work deserves to be seen on an international stage.

And this is massively helped by organisations like Theatre And Dance NI and Culture Ireland, who are doing everything they can to support this ambition, but our arts funding is the worst in Europe and I think the amount and standard of Northern Irish work coming over is a testament to the artists and not to our government, who seem to believe that what we do is essentially worthless.

There’s also the ‘Fleabag’ effect, a lot of people think one run at Edinburgh Fringe will make them a superstar and that feels a bit disconnected from the original ethos of Fringe, which is to experiment and fail – there’s a lot of pressure now to have a hit the first time round.

And of course, climate change. In 2018 I remember a lot of rain and cold weather, now only a few years later it’s often so hot during the Fringe that the venues are actually being impacted by it.

Last year I brought over my show ‘Anthem For Dissatisfaction’, with SkelpieLimmer and Brassneck, and the venue just wasn’t built for the heat. It got so dangerously warm that we had to keep the fire door open for the full show.

CC: If you could change one thing about the Edinburgh Festival, what would it be?
GD: Greedy, capitalist landlords renting out the most basic flats at extortionate prices and being the difference between an artist having the chance to showcase their work in a career defining festival or not.

Tax them like fuck, clamp down on rich people profiting from multiple homes during a major housing crisis – and forever – and make sure we pay no more per month than the accommodation actually costs.

It’s gotten so much more expensive over the last few years and it feels like there’s no end in sight. What’s the end goal here? To just have rich people making shows for rich people and all clapping each other on the back for another lazy echo chamber well done?

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‘Good With Faces’ is on at Summerhall until 31 Aug. Find the edfringe listing here.